Thread: New Fee's in affect January....

Here is the quote copied from moreracing.net from Jim

"

Because of the post below, today I went to the BLM They had said there would be Cost recover fee beginning in Jan. but made it sound like it would not be much??????? today I asked for a cost fee for the Jan Race in the pass it has been about $1500.00 Now they tell me for Jan race the fee is about $9500.00
I am working on this I know we will have to raise entry fees but how much I do not know. I am looking at new entry fee as.
$300.00 Sportsman
$460.00 Pro
unless we can come up with some other Ideas. Tomorrow I have a meeting with Kar Tek to see If they can Help in this matter As Mike and Mike have always been there for M.O.R.E. If you have any Idea's please post them here ASAP we hope to have this worked out by The end of Dec. How do you feel about the Price increase? I have no choice.

You Know as I we have covered our events well and to have 9 rangers out there in the way doing nothing but watching us work and trying to intimdate some of our people and to charge us an additional $8,000.00 is nothing but crap but I don't believe there is much we can do about it. Please email your congressperson and let them know you are unhappy about this e mail the Barstow BLM and do any other thing that you think will help. just be nice. I don't think they know the effect this is going to have on the economy. Our Goverment at work."




So looks like we will be footing to bill obviously. Take a look MDR's release.

http://www.mdrracing.com/_doc/2010_B...te_12_1_10.pdf

All of us need to voice our opinions and thoughts to BLM, and hope it might influence some kind of relief?

I don't like the added $100 entry fee but DRIVE's press release made it seem like entry fees needed to go up about $300 to work.

Thats not as bad as I thought it was going to be. And at least my numero uno codawg and prep guy got a real job last week LOL.

100 more dollars kind of blows. I guess its only a 100 bucks a race but I might do a couple less races next year. Maybe 4 instead of 6. We will see if sponsorships will pick up. How do you post on More's site. I tried to sign in on their guest book and it says I need a antibot password?

Originally Posted by fourstroker

I don't like the added $100 entry fee but DRIVE's press release made it seem like entry fees needed to go up about $300 to work.

Remember DRIVE does not have the sponsor or entry numbers that MORE has. Also I am sure the Imperial County office will charge more for the over time part since they also have to support the sand dunes and have officers over there. Do I agree with any of the rate hikes? No not at all.

have to realize that most of this was our own fault anyways. cant do something stupid and not expect us to have reprocutions of our actions.... Obviously 1 ranger per race didnt work.... now they have to bring out more and cover thier own ass. Its part of life. All we can do is learn from this and move on.

I do not mind paying the extra as long as we get to race...it does suck but hey if you think about it the entry fees are the cheapest thing about racing.

Hmm, for that kind of money, I'd just rather race SNORE.

I don't think the, oh well, at least we get to race, mentality is going to help. Don't get me wrong, I am gratefull too, but we have to do something about this, not just assume we can't do anything and just go with it. It would be cool if a title sponsor could help out with the extra fees. That would keep racing alive and well until we get this sorted out with the BLM and our wonderful government. If entry fees are raised, I see very low turnouts for next year.

i dont see raising the entry fee by $100 killing the sport... can nobody admit that we all fucked up and we have to take the consiquences? and that maybe we had it too good for too long?

Originally Posted by hxckidd

i dont see raising the entry fee by $100 killing the sport... can nobody admit that we all fucked up and we have to take the consiquences? and that maybe we had it too good for too long?

It is a little. I know I wont race as much now because of it. Already hard enough to race as it was.


No.

There has been a race held on that track for the last 15 years at least. Over 9,000 times a race vehicle has passed that spot with people standing there watching. One time an accident happens. Pretty good odds if you ask me. It was just a bad day. You don't shut down a freeway, or charge fees to drive on it if there is an accident. Accidents on freeways can be avoided just like this could have been. Stop driving on the freeway, bam, no accidents. Just because the econazis are jumping all over us and they are a bigger group than us we should just give in and fall prey to their guilt trips? The government sides with them because they have a bigger voice. We need to get loud. Had it too good for too long??? THIS IS AMERICA, isn't it?

Originally Posted by usmcgunrock

Remember DRIVE does not have the sponsor or entry numbers that MORE has. Also I am sure the Imperial County office will charge more for the over time part since they also have to support the sand dunes and have officers over there. Do I agree with any of the rate hikes? No not at all.

I was going to say the same thing....MORE has a lot more entries each race to spread the additional cost to. It won't affect each racer as much as it would at DRIVE where they might only have 30-40 cars per race...

Originally Posted by GREGASAURUS REX

It is a little. I know I wont race as much now because of it. Already hard enough to race as it was.


No.

There has been a race held on that track for the last 15 years at least. Over 9,000 times a race vehicle has passed that spot with people standing there watching. One time an accident happens. Pretty good odds if you ask me. It was just a bad day. You don't shut down a freeway, or charge fees to drive on it if there is an accident. Accidents on freeways can be avoided just like this could have been. Stop driving on the freeway, bam, no accidents. Just because the econazis are jumping all over us and they are a bigger group than us we should just give in and fall prey to their guilt trips? The government sides with them because they have a bigger voice. We need to get loud. Had it too good for too long??? THIS IS AMERICA, isn't it?

The gov doesnt allow you to stand ont he side of a freeway.... And they employ more then 1 CHP to protect the freeway at any given time. Do you say that someone else should pay your tax when the gov wants to take more to pay thier employee? ( dont answer that, i know you do... but you still pay your taxes). Your right the odds were low.... But watch video that has the rock pile from 5-6 years ago vs. video of the rock pile now days. I can remember a time when there was only 10 people total watching at the rock pile... now you have over 500. With growth of the sport comes change... And someone to police those changes. It only takes 1 accident to make that change.... I am sure at 1 time you could stand on the side of a freeway... Probably took one person to get hit to change that rule.

I know nobody likes change... Hell i think it sucks we have to pay more... But i understand the reasons and dont see a reason to bitch and moan about it. Obviously we cant police ourselves at races so we need the BLM or someone else to do it for us.

Originally Posted by tex1493

I do not mind paying the extra as long as we get to race...it does suck but hey if you think about it the entry fees are the cheapest thing about racing.

I agreee tenfold. Same thing with some of the other hokey stuff we have had to do at the last 2 MORE races. I will do them if I can continue to race

Originally Posted by FCORR

I was going to say the same thing....MORE has a lot more entries each race to spread the additional cost to. It won't affect each racer as much as it would at DRIVE where they might only have 30-40 cars per race...

DRIVE's release made it sound like the costs would go up substantially even with an average of about 80 cars. MORE does average a little over 100 cars per race.

[QUOTE=fourstroker;2478343DRIVE's release made it sound like the costs would go up substantially even with an average of about 80 cars. MORE does average a little over 100 cars per race.[/QUOTE]

I am sure they are going to hit up for more money because it is a bigger burden for the BLM down there to handle races and the sand dunes. Also MORE gets more sponsor money to help put on the race. Also 20 entry difference is $2000 if it is $100 an entry.

it is what it is. we can point fingers at everyone all day long, but it wont change shit now. either step up and pay the extra cost and be happy to still be able to race, or see the sport die off slowly imo

100$ aint shit ill support it for all the shit that happen last year, i love racing and wont stop just cuz an xtra 100per entry fee! its still wayyyy cheeper then i use to pay for drag racing when i was payin 500+ per race just in entry fees!!

it is a fine line to walk though. if they read "...100 dollars extra isn't that much..." whats to stop it from going up again. are we trusting the governing body to not stick it to us. when gas went up to $3/gal some had the same attitude, so they pushed it to what, almost $4.50-$5.00/gal. society made noise, cut back on driving and it came down. (wish it came back down to $2/gal again). if we have to pay more than so be it but there needs to be a limit. green stickers have paid for the land, i still pay green sticker fees, as well as you guys. at some point the fees need to reach a max.

my question is, is this the top or is it going higher? seems like a lot of money to use our own land.

Originally Posted by landinggearsuspension

it is a fine line to walk though. if they read "...100 dollars extra isn't that much..." whats to stop it from going up again. are we trusting the governing body to not stick it to us. when gas went up to $3/gal some had the same attitude, so they pushed it to what, almost $4.50-$5.00/gal. society made noise, cut back on driving and it came down. (wish it came back down to $2/gal again). if we have to pay more than so be it but there needs to be a limit. green stickers have paid for the land, i still pay green sticker fees, as well as you guys. at some point the fees need to reach a max.

my question is, is this the top or is it going higher? seems like a lot of money to use our own land.

i am sure with inflation cost can always go up... We arent paying to "use our land" we are paying to "race on our land" go out to barstow, lucerne, plaster city, ocotillo any day of the week and its free.... If you want to race you are paying MORE to do that.

so we should pay the race orginizers but i don't understand permits for stuff that we could use any day of the week free. thats kind of what i meant. are we gonna need permits to have kids eventually?

more paper work, more blm present at teh races then on a normal weekend... thus we have to pay for these as part of using the land.

Compairing going out to the open desert on a none race weekend and holding and organizing a race are 2 completely different animals. Dont see how you dont understand that.

no i understand that money is needed, but an 8000 dollars hike=how many more blm workers? how much do they get paid a day. also i was just saying that there needs to be a set limit. if there is another accident does it go up again. is that the way to punish us as a whole. i am in no way saying that the land use should be free for a race, just wondering if there is a limit.

I agree that the recovery cost is necessary, however, I believe that the fees need to be scrutinized to ensure we aren't overpaying. Permits are always going to cost money. Lets not forget that this has been in place at the Federal level for years and our local offices have chosen not to enforce it. Dezert racing is a small percentage of the BLM's concerns on a national level. The BEST thing we can do is communicate to our local government and BLM offices how this affects the 'smaller' race promoters and they can pass the word along the chain.

Originally Posted by masta-t

I agree that the recovery cost is necessary, however, I believe that the fees need to be scrutinized to ensure we aren't overpaying. Permits are always going to cost money. Lets not forget that this has been in place at the Federal level for years and our local offices have chosen not to enforce it. Dezert racing is a small percentage of the BLM's concerns on a national level. The BEST thing we can do is communicate to our local government and BLM offices how this affects the 'smaller' race promoters and they can pass the word along the chain.

totally agree.

Originally Posted by hxckidd

more paper work, more blm present at teh races then on a normal weekend... thus we have to pay for these as part of using the land.

Compairing going out to the open desert on a none race weekend and holding and organizing a race are 2 completely different animals. Dont see how you dont understand that.

But it's not like they charge the public extra to go out on a crowded holiday weekend, where there is more BLM and rangers, and a lot more people than any race weekend. They aren't going to have $8000 worth of BLM employees out there. But a $100 hike per person should really stop people from racing.

it is no different than big weekend in the dunes. vendors have to pay for their spots. its a sanctioned event, you have to pay....

I would love to see how they calculated this "recovery" cost. I would also like to see how a BLM office spends their money, OHV and race fees go up, more land closes, where the hell is the money going?

Also BLM should enforce the rules they already have in place, its stupid the amount of pallets I still see being burned in glamis.

If a BLM officer is already on the payroll then why do we need to pay? They are already getting paid, as long as it doesn't run into overtime for them. What's their schedule?

Guys, it may not seem alot, but it COULD be. We just need to voice our opinions as it seems the BLM does listen. They may not be able to do much, but you know what? What do we got to loose? Ask yourselves that.

Rates go up, less people enter, so that means the OTHER racers that race, their entry fee will be HIGHER as it wont be as spread out as if their are more people.

300 is just an estimate also....It could change depending on entries.


Finger pointing is the wrong attitude to have. Think positive. Its in the past and we all know we have a responsibility to police ourselves and TRY to police others.


If BLM wants to charge for using BLM man hours, then maybe they could contract a different company out if they dont have the man power?

Originally Posted by masta-t

I agree that the recovery cost is necessary, however, I believe that the fees need to be scrutinized to ensure we aren't overpaying. Permits are always going to cost money. Lets not forget that this has been in place at the Federal level for years and our local offices have chosen not to enforce it. Dezert racing is a small percentage of the BLM's concerns on a national level. The BEST thing we can do is communicate to our local government and BLM offices how this affects the 'smaller' race promoters and they can pass the word along the chain.

From what I read, the offices here adopted the NV guidelines which inculdes "cost recovery". It's not a Federal rule, from what I understood. I am going to look into this whole thing a lot more because it's HUGE to me. I am not going to just sit back, accept it, and do nothing. I just hope others will do the same. There are so many things that I want to learn about the proccess just so I can understand it better. Job descriptions. how long it takes to pull a permit? Do they figure the extra BLM precense at the event as part of the "more than 50 man hours" to do the permit? From what I read it was just time and paperwork to get the permit pulled. I just glance at the document though, that's why I want to look into it more. Are they efficient as they could be so that costs are not more than they should be? Are they set costs for a certain type of event?

Stepping back and looking at it, I can understand if a person/promotor wanted to put on an event, the BLM would have to work on pulling the permit for the person/promotor, then they would have to "oversee" the event as it takes place which would cost man hours and probly people working overtime, vehicle gas & maintenance. Which, obviously, the promotor would have to pay for. I very seriously doubt those fees were not already included in the past costs to the person/promotor.

I just sent them an email. Hopefully I will hear back.

What I dont understand is, they are already working, why should we have to pay their base salary for doing there job? Thats why they are there. I can see us covering the added cost of Overtime and the Extra fuel, but thats about it. Just the overtime.

Originally Posted by hxckidd

i dont see raising the entry fee by $100 killing the sport... can nobody admit that we all fucked up and we have to take the consiquences? and that maybe we had it too good for too long?

I really don't see how $600/season is going to kill the sport, that's a drop in the bucket compared to prep costs for a full season campaign.

I think saying we fucked up being the reason for this is slightly off, I see it more as, we were getting away with it for years, and now the BLM got caught with their pants down and now we have to pay what we probably should have been paying all along. The California 200 accident is not why these fees are coming, it's the scrutiny the California 200 accident brought on the BLM, and how the patrol all races. We did fuck up which lead to the California 200 accident, everybody saw it coming and just stood around and let it happen.

Yeah it sucks that we have to pay more to race, but, it's not quite as bad as people are making it out to be. I see the instant death of racing if the BLM paid the extra expenses out of their budget. When the budget gets cut, guess what would be cut first? The extra expense of hosting races. What about when the anti offroad groups catch wind of their taxes paying for offroad racing? At least if we cover the cost of our own racing, we're protected from budget cuts possibly killing racing.

I agree that the actual costs should be scrutinized, but you have to remember, the BLM is understaffed as it is in Stodard Valley, Jhonson Valley, and Plaster City, so getting more Rangers at a race means paying overtime, hiring new Rangers, etc. They still have duties to patrol the rest of the territory that the field office is responsible for, that's where it gets expensive.

Am I saying sit back and accept anything and everything? Fuck no. What I am saying, is research and find out the facts of what they're doing, and react accordingly. An overreaction on false information can be worse than no reaction.

Seems like everyone is on the same page really. I would like to know about the new BLM fees etc. In reality 100$ doesnt mean crap on a race weekend when youre a couple thousand deep in prep, food, gas, etc. Im totally with Tex, at least we still have a place to race!

Originally Posted by maxyedor

I really don't see how $600/season is going to kill the sport, that's a drop in the bucket compared to prep costs for a full season campaign.

I think saying we fucked up being the reason for this is slightly off, I see it more as, we were getting away with it for years, and now the BLM got caught with their pants down and now we have to pay what we probably should have been paying all along. The California 200 accident is not why these fees are coming, it's the scrutiny the California 200 accident brought on the BLM, and how the patrol all races. We did fuck up which lead to the California 200 accident, everybody saw it coming and just stood around and let it happen.

Yeah it sucks that we have to pay more to race, but, it's not quite as bad as people are making it out to be. I see the instant death of racing if the BLM paid the extra expenses out of their budget. When the budget gets cut, guess what would be cut first? The extra expense of hosting races. What about when the anti offroad groups catch wind of their taxes paying for offroad racing? At least if we cover the cost of our own racing, we're protected from budget cuts possibly killing racing.

I agree that the actual costs should be scrutinized, but you have to remember, the BLM is understaffed as it is in Stodard Valley, Jhonson Valley, and Plaster City, so getting more Rangers at a race means paying overtime, hiring new Rangers, etc. They still have duties to patrol the rest of the territory that the field office is responsible for, that's where it gets expensive.

Am I saying sit back and accept anything and everything? Fuck no. What I am saying, is research and find out the facts of what they're doing, and react accordingly. An overreaction on false information can be worse than no reaction.

Very well said max...

Jim just released some more info about why the fees are going up. You guys should check on the MORE website and go inot the RACE TALK forum. Pretty much, the BLM changed our classifiaction as a "Competative event" to a "Commercial event". Under their rules for the commercial event, that's where the new fees come into play. As well as overkill with an overpopulation of Rangers at the events. lol. 3 Rangers should be enough, they send 9-12. AND, they have Rangers there the day before to check the area for proper signage and blah blah blah. I'd like to know what their definitions for each classification of event are, and see if they are being fair.


Oh, and for me, the cost increase for entry fees is more than $600 a year. I used to pay $200, now I am racing 1400 and would like to make it a pro class. I know others are for the idea, at least they used to be, but the difference is $260 each race. That's a lot of cheese to me. Enough to keep me out of the game unless a sponsor or two pick up the tab.

Yea seriously I need to get some seeds for these money trees.

If you cant afford to pay the extra $100 to race then you should not be racing.

Originally Posted by The Piece

If you cant afford to pay the extra $100 to race then you should not be racing.

Just scrap getting new wheel bearings, tighten the shit outta the current ones and grease the crap outta them. There's your extra 100$. Book of The Piece, chapter unknown.