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  1. #1
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    I might be driving my uncles '92 Bronco home after Christmas and building it up a little. His budget is $3k tops so its not gonna be fancy by any means. Where they live, in NorCal there aren't many deserts, so I'm not sure what would be best for him. If he only plans to do easy trails and mudding would cut and turned beams be that much better than a drop bracket kit?

    I would ask the Pirates, but in all honesty, they scare the hell out of me.

    Also, I know their are a couple people on DR doing cut and turned beams out of their garage for a whole hell of a lot cheaper than autofab and camburg, can you guys shoot me PM.
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  2. #2
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    Dont give a family member a drop down lift.Christmas will suck next year when his brackets are bent.How much do cut & turned beams run?Im picking up a bronco II soon and planning on doing the same,just havent researched yet.

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    When I was planning to keep 4wd on my Explorer their were a few guys on here who said they do them out of their garages for under $500, and they looked pretty decent in pics. If you go with an autofab or camburg setup, look at over a grand.

    PS. I have a Dana 35 setup I'm trying to get rid of, if you want to upgrade from that Dana 28.
    \"don't copy others great ideas...\"
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  4. #4
    SAINT sandman21's Avatar
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    It says $550 for cut and turned beams on the burg's site, they donít have price on Autofab, but I would think they are in the same price range. PM 410fortune, or wait for him to see this thread. Jamie knows his shit.
    Donít ask for it. Go out and win it. Do that and you'll be rewarded.

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    What about LT coil buckets, would he NEED them with cut and turned beams or will some lift speings in the stock buckets work? And are longer radius arms pointless without at least new coil buckets?
    \"don't copy others great ideas...\"
    -Jerry/Camburg

  6. #6
    Senior Member daDunc205x's Avatar
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    if you bring in your beams, i think its only like $500 or so. if you go down there and dont bring anything, it will be the more expensive cost you're talking about. you could use say 500 on beams, 500 on rad. arms, 1k for some coilovers, and do a hoop/engine cage with the rest, and buy some kumho mt's for 115 each.

    if that's too much, you can still run the beams/radius arms, but get some coils from camburg, and then run the 5100's. that will then save the $ of the hoop/cage, and give you some $ for the rear.

    those prices are do-able, especially if searching race-dezert classifieds, or the classifieds on here.

  7. #7
    Fastest Guy 4 Half-a-Lap DoWN4GLaMiS's Avatar
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    i may have sum 4" over4wd beams for sale soon. pm me if your interested...
    When a man lives dangerous, he is not afraid to DIE. When he is not afraid to DIE, he is strangely, free to LIVE...


    Either way, good luck Sean. I'll cheer you on no matter which class you race. I am a fan.

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  8. #8
    Senior Member steveG's Avatar
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    Coil-buckets don't give you more travel, the custom buckets are simply stronger and give you a good foundation for upper shock mounts.

    If you're looking to build it cheap and want to get some travel out of it here's what I would do"

    modified beams
    extended radius arms
    4" lift coils
    10" travel shock behind the coil-bucket

    this would give you 12" of travel & be pretty easy to install. The hardest part would be building the upper shock mount, but even that wouldn't be much work. The 10" travel shock


    I've got some Superlift radius arms modified to use heims. Pete Albano has used Superlift arms on his truck for years & never had a problem. PM me if you're interested. They come with new heims and misalignment spacers for $200.

  9. #9
    360 Metal Fab 4x4x's Avatar
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    I had bad experiences with drop down brackets. I eventually got cut and turned stock width from kartek(camburg) for about $300. i think i ran em with the stock RA's. then eventually I got the heimed radius arms. i was just running the 5.5 coils from my old superlift kit with stock buckets. then eventually I found some used burg coil buckets...then got eibach coils and kings. I did everything in stages which isn't the ideal way to go, but a lot easier on the wallet, and you can always find this stuff used for way cheap if you search around often enough on here and RDC.

    For trails and mud...I did that stuff with the drop brackets, then bent and broke a bunch of them. Back then I liked to smash on my truck pretty hard, but at least now I have something that can handle it if I feel like givin it gas. Even in the local places around here(norcal), my truck takes some pretty good abuse. its more hardpacked with bumps and rocks and crap, not softer sandier stuff like some of the socal deserts(and yes I know it gets verrry rough in places in socal too guys )

    anyways, unless you're trying to offload that shit onto somebody, don't buy it! my .02
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  10. #10
    B2 Mile Hi in Crawlorado 410fortune's Avatar
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    a 92 Bronco has a D44 TTB people, not a D35.
    This is a full size truck.

    Drop brackets SUCK

    Extended radius arms of some sort, custom from stock or aftermarket, bushings or heims, its up to you.
    Cut and turn the beams at the pivot for 3" of lift.
    Widen the track width 1.5" per side
    Get a custom outer axleshaft for the pass side (should be 3" longer then stock)
    Run a 5" lift coil, or even better run a 8" lift coil and move your stock bucket up on the frame 3"
    Measure for shocks AFTER its all bolted on
    4" drop pitman arm
    extended brake lines
    and the front is done.

    IN the back new leafs and/or a block and shackle.

    Cheap and long travel TTB right there, can be done in your garage with stock beams or pay somebody else to modify the beams, up to you.

    My D35 is similar to this and I am getting close to 14" of usable wheel travel (12" currently, some simple mods coming up will get me 2" more at least)


    Moving the coil bucket up on teh frame and running a longer spring will get you more bump travel from a cut and turned TTB, this is what the TTB lacks the most.
    88 BII "slightly" modified.
    4x4, ARBs, 35's, 5.0L EFI OBD-II, 4R70W, 6" suspension, D35 cut and turn TTB, 31 spline 8.8 full disc brake conversion, Autofab glass & Eddie Bauer heated leather
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  11. #11
    B2 Mile Hi in Crawlorado 410fortune's Avatar
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    also the stock inverted Y steering SUCKS, look into your options here, bump steer on the street can suck huge.
    88 BII "slightly" modified.
    4x4, ARBs, 35's, 5.0L EFI OBD-II, 4R70W, 6" suspension, D35 cut and turn TTB, 31 spline 8.8 full disc brake conversion, Autofab glass & Eddie Bauer heated leather
    96 5.0L Explorer- daily driver on 33's, converted to a true 4x4 (low Range)

  12. #12
    Senior Member mxking426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (410fortune @ Dec. 21 2005,10:03)]also the stock inverted Y steering SUCKS, look into your options here, bump steer on the street can suck huge.
    I couldnt have said that any better myself. Although some people may not think that the Superlift Superrunner is made for a "desert" truck, it does a fairly good job of eliminating the bump steer that you will experience with a dropped pitman arm and Fords wonderful inverted Y tie rods.

  13. #13
    Senior Member steveG's Avatar
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    I missed the fact that it was a full size Bronco.....oops

    I would still go the same route.

    modified beams
    4" lift coil
    extended radius arms (I would use bushings not heims)
    10" travel shock behind the coil bucket mounted

    =16" of wheel travel


    Why the dropped pitman arm? the steering works best when all the pivot points are on the same plane. I have a stock pitman and steering on my Bronco and it cycles 16" with no problems(no binding).

    I also have 4" springs on mine and the spring rate is great and they cycle 16". I don't see how adding a longer coil and moving the bucket up will allow more bump travel. Bump travel ends when the beam bottoms against the frame.

  14. #14
    F-2FIVE0 totalchaosyota92's Avatar
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    i have the camburg buckets, coils, and a set of racerunner 10" 2.5's for sale. ill hook you up. pm me.
    Mike Lara
    GIANT MOTORSPORTS

  15. #15
    OT Guido partybarge_pilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (steveG @ Dec. 21 2005,10:47)]Why the dropped pitman arm? the steering works best when all the pivot points are on the same plane. I have a stock pitman and steering on my Bronco and it cycles 16" with no problems(no binding).
    It actually helps with bumpsteer. Wierd I know but it does. Since your inner pivot is lower on the d-side you get less toe in when droped out but a little more on up travel, not as noticable as the stocker when droped out though.

    I wouldn't do the extended beams where you move the pumpkin out. It hits the frame on up travel unless you do some serious notching. If your going to go big, do it right and extend them at the ends and get 2 new axles.

    I did My own beams in My driveway in about 4 hr's. Didn't even take the spindle off. Last through 4 years of pre-runnig hell.
    I'm just here to help!

  16. #16
    OT Guido partybarge_pilot's Avatar
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    Oh, and on the rear, bail the stock angled blocks and put on new perch's with the right angle. Also would be a good time to go too 2.5" perch's, makes springs easier to get. Just weld some spacers in the stock mounts and shackles.
    I'm just here to help!

  17. #17
    OG Member baja619's Avatar
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    I would go with a LT coilbucket system, you can get a near bullet proof 4x4 kit for the budget that you have.

    LT coilbucket 4x4



    Click here for News & Events



    83-97 RANGER 4 x 4 Pre-Runner Kit
    Available Years 1983-1997

    Front Suspension
    Complete Bolt-On Kit
    18" wheel travel

    FEATURES
    9" Extended front wheel track width (4.5" per side)
    Adjustable Coil Buckets with dual shock mounts

    Fabricated Parts Included:
    (2) Lengthened I- Beams
    (2) Radius Arms
    (2) Radius Arms pivot brackets
    (2) I-Beam pivot brackets
    (2) Coil Buckets with dual upper shock mounts
    (2) Coil adjusters
    (2) Steering adjusters
    (2) Custom wound coil springs
    (4) Shocks
    (2) Limiting straps
    (4) Brake lines with fittings
    (2) Alignment cams
    (2) Radius arm donuts
    $3000

    I beleive this same style kit is available at the same price for full size

  18. #18
    360 Metal Fab 4x4x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (partybarge_pilot @ Dec. 21 2005,11:07)]Oh, and on the rear, bail the stock angled blocks and put on new perch's with the right angle. Also would be a good time to go too 2.5" perch's, makes springs easier to get. Just weld some spacers in the stock mounts and shackles.
    I'm not following this too much. I'm guessing stock broncos have angled blocks in the rear?

    I would think that he should just stick with stock width stuff to keep the cost down as much as possible, then he could afford nice springs, coils, and shocks to make for a nice ride. Widened shafts can get pricey! (and of course beams of you're not makign your own)
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  19. #19
    Senior Member steveG's Avatar
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    I would stick with the stock pitman arm.

    The geometry for the passenger beam is really good even with the stock steering. The driver side wheel is the one screwed. Lowering the pitman arm MIGHT help the driver side wheel but really screws up the geometry for the passenger wheel, so what do you gain?

    Look at shops like Autofab, Spirit and Leduc. If they don't use a cross-over steering system, they all use stock. Those three alone have thousands of kits out there with probably hundreds of htousands of miles on them, so you'd think they would be using a dropped pitman if it was truly better.

  20. #20
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    I say stock pitman also. I have one on my widened 4x4 ranger and there is basically no bumpsteer. Come drive it if you don't believe - but I get to drive your prerunner too.

    Also, this bronco may not be a good candidate for a widened front end. He said they're gonna use it for mild off roading. And if you are doing all that up front - would you keep the stock leafs and shocks in the back? And if you widen the front end and throw on some 33x12.50s are you gonna be rubbing on the front? You might be able to lift it like an inch or two and just align it. Use some good shocks and new springs front and rear. Maybe even fab a little hoop off of/into the stock coil bucket to either run two 2.0 shocks or one 2.5 and ditch the pin mount shock in front. Maybe some new radius arms and add a little caster. Hell, the tires and wheels are gonna be a grand$. It is a slippery slope when you start doing the work on your truck - you do one thing - then you need to do another because of the first, and so on...If you only want to spend $3k - period - no more after that - then maybe don't widen it - but don't get a bracket lift either - that's just to fit big tires - and stock is better than a bolt on bracket lift off road.
    sig

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    Just my opinion but for a mild trail truck and 3k I would use the stock suspension with just an upgraded shock.
    Get some used front glass, maybe reshape the rear wheel wells and get some glassed quarter panels so you cam stuff some good sized BFG's A/T's in there.
    Then use the rest on gears and lockers.

    Shocks - 500
    Glass - 600
    Tires - 700
    Gears/lockers - 1200

    Just kind of guessing on those prices though.
    86 Ford Bronco II
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (slimjim @ Dec. 21 2005,2:17)]I say stock pitman also. *I have one on my widened 4x4 ranger and there is basically no bumpsteer. *Come drive it if you don't believe - but I get to drive your prerunner too. *

    Also, *this bronco may not be a good candidate for a widened front end. *He said they're gonna use it for mild off roading. *And if you are doing all that up front - would you keep the stock leafs and shocks in the back? *And if you widen the front end and throw on some 33x12.50s are you gonna be rubbing on the front? *You might be able to lift it like an inch or two and just align it. *Use some good shocks and new springs front and rear. *Maybe even fab a little hoop off of/into the stock coil bucket to either run two 2.0 shocks or one 2.5 and ditch the pin mount shock in front. *Maybe some new radius arms and add a little caster. *Hell, the tires and wheels are gonna be a grand$. *It is a slippery slope when you start doing the work on your truck - you do one thing - then you need to do another because of the first, and so on...If you only want to spend $3k - period - no more after that - then maybe don't widen it - but don't get a bracket lift either - that's just to fit big tires - and stock is better than a bolt on bracket lift off road.
    I agree that it isn't a good candidate for a widened front end because it's for mild stuff and also because it's for northern california. Most of the trails are so narrow you wouldn't want to take a bronco to begin with. I'd do the frontend, maybe just an addaleaf in the rear and save the money for a locker in the rear. Keep it pretty low, and don't get too big of tires unless you want to do a gear change. The sierra's are a whole different game than the desert. You might want to consider swapping in a solid front axle.?? Or not, for mild stuff.

  23. #23
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    You guys are doing the same thing I did in the beginning, it took me like a week to get in the low buck 4 wheeler mindset. As far as travel, I don't see it being important, he's never gonna go fast, I imagine the only time it will ever go over 30mph on anything not paved will be for the month or so that I drive it while fixing my Dodge. He mentioned being able to mud it more than trail it, so big tires are more important to him than big travel. Also, theirs other stuff that has to be done for the 3 grand, which is why I was considering drop down brackets for a second their. Getting it cheap is going to be my burden, but here's what I was thinking for it:
    Cut and turned beams
    Make longer Rad Arms and mounts, or find some in classifieds
    Springs
    Bolt on shocks? Maybe I can make a better shock mount we'll see when the time comes
    For the rear, maybe reconfiguring the stock stuff, not sure what's on a Bronco, but maybe spring over , or shackle flip, or just longer shackles, if not I'm not sure
    Rear TruTrack and gears front and back
    33's, either used or what's on sale at 4wp's
    Steel Rockcrawler wheels
    Homemade bumpers
    Gut interior, fix stock seats or use Mastercrafts we have at the shop
    he says it needs engine work, but he also says it should make it here from Sonoma, so I don't know.

    I've seen people get away without flares and it looks cool, so if I have to I plan on just cutting the sheet metal and calling it day if theirs any tire clearance issues.
    \"don't copy others great ideas...\"
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  24. #24
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    I know at one point I came across a site that explained the process of cutting and turning beams, but I don't remember where it was, and since I've done a lot of learning since then, it may not seem like another language now, anyone know of a site.
    \"don't copy others great ideas...\"
    -Jerry/Camburg

  25. #25
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    heres one

    http://www.off-road.com/ford/zim/ttb.html

    I dont know if that is the best example to follow, but it is an example.

    Can you do the gears and locker yourself? That will save alot of $. You really wanna get rid of that stock front (upper) shock mount. Add a leaf will give a little lift, but won't make it work better - probably make it work worse actually. I don't have a bronco, so I can't say for sure, but i think the stock position has the shackle pointing down from the hanger, so a flip is possible, but that will lower ride height - also I think it's spring over to begin with. New rear springs would be like $500 - $600 and would be worthy - then change the shocks mounts while your down there and lean them over a little more - in the same direction - probably fwd since the tank is in the rear i think? Some good used rebuildable shocks for like $200/pair - or new for like $360. If you do all the work yourself, the rear suspension after hardware should be less than $1k. Gears - $400, locker - $450, good used 33's - $350 (stock wheels?) That leaves $800 for the front. But nothing ever costs as little as you want/think - so make your list then count on at least 20% more cost for bs / misc.

    Also, I know jack shit about muddin' - so maybe some big ass tires, and leave everything else stock?
    sig

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    I think I can do the gears myself, from what I've seen/read it doesn't seem like its that hard, just time consuming. Isn't it like put it together mark the gears turn the gears, add a shim rinse and repeat?

    You guys are really helping, I had totally forgot about brake lines.

    I really hope this pans out, right now I'm trying to get a plan together so I can have something ready to convince him should he have second thoughts by the time its ready to drive it home. I'm thinking that if the negotiating goes well, I might not mind putting my own money in just to do it right, and to show what I can do.
    \"don't copy others great ideas...\"
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  27. #27
    Senior Member daDunc205x's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Cracka Racing @ Dec. 21 2005,9:05)]I think I can do the gears myself, from what I've seen/read it doesn't seem like its that hard, just time consuming. Isn't it like put it together mark the gears turn the gears, add a shim rinse and repeat?
    i've had two friends blow up their gears in the last two weeks, and the shops that did it do a good job(usually). just be careful

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    I am worried about my first "full" project being for someone else, but I will be driving it for a few months after, so it seems like I should be able to find the flaws before I deliver it.
    \"don't copy others great ideas...\"
    -Jerry/Camburg

  29. #29
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    For info on building a Bronco on the cheap check out www.fullsizerbronco.com. If you have the patience of weeding through the BS there is some good info there.

    -Tim
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Cracka Racing @ Dec. 21 2005,6:34)]You guys are doing the same thing I did in the beginning, it took me like a week to get in the low buck 4 wheeler mindset. As far as travel, I don't see it being important, he's never gonna go fast, I imagine the only time it will ever go over 30mph on anything not paved will be for the month or so that I drive it while fixing my Dodge. He mentioned being able to mud it more than trail it, so big tires are more important to him than big travel. Also, theirs other stuff that has to be done for the 3 grand, which is why I was considering drop down brackets for a second their. Getting it cheap is going to be my burden, but here's what I was thinking for it:
    Cut and turned beams
    Make longer Rad Arms and mounts, or find some in classifieds
    Springs
    Bolt on shocks? Maybe I can make a better shock mount we'll see when the time comes
    For the rear, maybe reconfiguring the stock stuff, not sure what's on a Bronco, but maybe spring over , or shackle flip, or just longer shackles, if not I'm not sure
    Rear TruTrack and gears front and back
    33's, either used or what's on sale at 4wp's
    Steel Rockcrawler wheels
    Homemade bumpers
    Gut interior, fix stock seats or use Mastercrafts we have at the shop
    he says it needs engine work, but he also says it should make it here from Sonoma, so I don't know.

    I've seen people get away without flares and it looks cool, so if I have to I plan on just cutting the sheet metal and calling it day if theirs any tire clearance issues.
    I think this sounds like a pretty good plan.
    I would definetly keep the suspension work pretty budget.

    I cut my fenders like your talking about and it didn't come out all that bad.
    I cut both the inner and out fender and then filled in the gap with fiberglass.
    Here's an old pic after i finished.
    86 Ford Bronco II
    4.0L -> C5 -> Manual BG 1350 -> Dana 28/Ford 8.8\"

    \"A soul in tension thatís learning to fly
    Condition grounded but determined to try
    Canít keep my eyes from the circling skies
    Tongue-tied and twisted just an earth-bound misfit\" - Pink Floyd

  31. #31
    B2 Mile Hi in Crawlorado 410fortune's Avatar
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    your TTB likely will never hit the bump stops with a lift coil in there, the coil wont allow it.

    This is WHY the coil bucket can be moved up to actually ALLOW the beam to make it up to the bump stop.

    Bump steer is not too bad with this setup

    I drove with MILD bump steer for years, thinking the same thing, but when I got rid of 80% of it thats when I realized that any is too much, especially for CRAWLING, the camber change as the beam cylces can tip you over. 5 have video of my truck working before and after the Stupid lift suprrunner kit and the change in tire position as the beam cycles us night and day

    16" sounds a bit high for the setup described above, but I am more familiar with the D35 then D44. the stock steering allows about 12-14" MAX typically
    88 BII "slightly" modified.
    4x4, ARBs, 35's, 5.0L EFI OBD-II, 4R70W, 6" suspension, D35 cut and turn TTB, 31 spline 8.8 full disc brake conversion, Autofab glass & Eddie Bauer heated leather
    96 5.0L Explorer- daily driver on 33's, converted to a true 4x4 (low Range)

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