98 F-150 ext cab

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Forget Regrets

SiCCMADE
Dec 18, 2010
3,422
26
48
Santa Ana
Took the bypasses off last weekend and revalved them yesterday. It was a full 15 F comp over full 8 rebound. If I can’t get these 2.5s to do what I want them to do I’ll sell them and go bigger; 3.5 x 14 5T or 16 and redo the upper shock mount. We were thinking about turning the short comp tube into a free bleed to help get the piston out of the bump zone, could also be a leaf issue too.

The end result was 15-1.75, 15-1.60, F, 18-1.60 full stack for compression and half 8s for rebound. Light springs in the long compression tubes and medium springs in the short tube and rebound tube. Went with light springs for razor ruts and chatter, help that valve open easier.

I’m running 150psi in the rear and might up to 200psi depending on how things go when I go back out. Running 175psi in the front shocks and will change it to 200psi to get a little more compression out of the front. Future plans for the front is 3.5x10” 4 or 5 tube hose remote. Looking for some shitty kings so I can rebuild them and make them look nice.




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FasterNU

Mega Member
Jun 28, 2006
7,236
643
113
San Diego
I would have max overkill pressure in the front. 300-350PSI. Don't listen to anyone that says it will make it harsh.. You are gonna need a lot of compression in the front for that heavy of a truck on a single coil over. Lot of comp valving in a top mounted ressy = cavitation at high shaft speeds.

I believe the compression clickers are really only affecting the flow of fluid into the reservoir from shaft displacement.(Which totally helps with cavitation!) Doubt they affect the free bleed a ton... so curious why you want more free bleed, yet said you want more comp... and you want to loosen compression clickers ... which is actually gonna make any cavitation issues worse!

Bottom mount bypass doesn't really benefit much from increased N2 pressure. You can go much stiffer before you need more shock. Well, for a short duration. LOL. Heat will be your problem. But, it seems you are only running 15's now? Have to admit...I don't understand the new valving you wrote above.

Oh, and I get confused when people say long tube, short tube, etc. Why? Because some shocks bypass tubes are in series, some are in parallel. So, in your case... the short tube is actually the upper portion of comp travel. On my SAW.. the short comp tube would actually be the lower portion of travel.

However, regardless of the semantics: WHY would you want to turn your second zone right before bump into a free bleed. Free bleed works both ways! You would lose all compression in that zone.. right before the bump zone! You should be able to get rebound to work without doing that.

Do you have all free bleeds plugged in bypass?

FWIW.. I never run less than 200 PSI in any of my shocks.
 

Forget Regrets

SiCCMADE
Dec 18, 2010
3,422
26
48
Santa Ana
I would have max overkill pressure in the front. 300-350PSI. Don't listen to anyone that says it will make it harsh.. You are gonna need a lot of compression in the front for that heavy of a truck on a single coil over. Lot of comp valving in a top mounted ressy = cavitation at high shaft speeds.

I believe the compression clickers are really only affecting the flow of fluid into the reservoir from shaft displacement.(Which totally helps with cavitation!) Doubt they affect the free bleed a ton... so curious why you want more free bleed, yet said you want more comp... and you want to loosen compression clickers ... which is actually gonna make any cavitation issues worse!

Bottom mount bypass doesn't really benefit much from increased N2 pressure. You can go much stiffer before you need more shock. Well, for a short duration. LOL. Heat will be your problem. But, it seems you are only running 15's now? Have to admit...I don't understand the new valving you wrote above.

Oh, and I get confused when people say long tube, short tube, etc. Why? Because some shocks bypass tubes are in series, some are in parallel. So, in your case... the short tube is actually the upper portion of comp travel. On my SAW.. the short comp tube would actually be the lower portion of travel.

However, regardless of the semantics: WHY would you want to turn your second zone right before bump into a free bleed. Free bleed works both ways! You would lose all compression in that zone.. right before the bump zone! You should be able to get rebound to work without doing that.

Do you have all free bleeds plugged in bypass?

FWIW.. I never run less than 200 PSI in any of my shocks.
Yes the free bleed would affect both sides. But we didn’t turn it into a free bleed, just left it as is. I work at king shocks and been talking to the race department and a couple guys in sales along with Ross king on what to do with the valving before stepping up my shocks. On the prerunner series bypass piston there’s 1 free bleed hole; it’s small and can’t be plugged to my knowledge.

Guess it depends how many tubes you’re running to say long, short, etc.

The valving number is just the diameter on the shim size. It’s 2 15 valve shims, a flutter shim, and 5 or 6 18 valve shims. Someone correct me if I’m wrong but I believe it’s 7 valve shims for a stack, I believe he took the first 3 shims out. One of the guys in race did it for me off the clock while I was finishing up some paper work. The whole valving thing is new to me and learning as I go along with “tuning” the bypasses. The 15s will flex in the small stuff and when I start hitting the bigger bumps as the piston flows more through the cylinder, the 18s will engage and I’ll get that stiffer ride.

The compression adjusters in the front did make a difference but I want a little more out of it. I got 20s on it right now and 15 in the comp adjuster. But the rear can’t really keep up either so gotta get that close to where I want it before messing with the valving on the front. Was told that near full compression with more psi is where that extra psi would come into play.

Pretty sure someone can chime in and explain it better.


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FasterNU

Mega Member
Jun 28, 2006
7,236
643
113
San Diego
Curious to hear partybarge's thoughts on this. I would think a flutter in a bypass is wacked. I have never been a big fan of flutter stacks.... but I will admit that I haven't played with them much. So it could be "naivety"

I personally like heavy valving on the piston and I like to use the bypass tubes for the free flow. That way you get a kick ass bump zone.

This comment troubles me a bit. (Hope you don't think I am being condescending or anything here. I love valving talk and still learning every day.)
"Was told that near full compression with more psi is where that extra psi would come into play."

As for top mounted reservoir shocks like a coil over... Let's think about it:

There is a piston that is trying to be forced through a column of oil by the suspensions movement. With a top mounted reservoir, the only thing making that oil go through the piston is the force exerted on that column of oil above the piston.

If there is not adequate force to make the oil to go through the piston at a given shaft speed or higher(via N2 pressure, or damping from an ACV valve) ... the piston will instead force the oil through the hose and push the IFP deeper into the reservoir. This creates a huge vacuum on the bottom side of the piston. AKA cavitation.

The more pressure you have in that reservoir (or the more resistance the fluid flowing through the hose sees with your comp clickers)... the better you are at preventing that from happening. So, this would effect the entire stroke, not just the upper portion of compression travel. Sure, as the shaft displaces more volume in the reservoir and the pressure ramps up... it becomes more and more effective at this. BUT, this is something where a higher N2 starting point will show benefits over the entire stroke. It is not "position sensitive".

As for number of shims. How they come from the factory depends on the size of shock and the shock manufacturer. For instance, a RadFlo 2.5" race piston has 1 less shim on rebound side than comp side.. due to design of the piston. And that typical number of 7 shims is just for a standard pyramid stack. I have anywhere from 4x shims to like 9x or more shims per stack in the 3x trucks I have messed with. King, SAW, and Radflo. I now get to do all Fox on my new truck I am building.

Another thing to think about on comp side. Total distance from largest diameter shim to top out washer. If I showed some less knowledgeable people the valving from G3's coilovers... they might make an incorrect assumption based on shim thickness.

Only 4x shims...1x .015 large diameter shim and the rest are super thin ..008 and .010. Based on the shim thickness alone... it must be soft, right!? WRONG. That is actually my stiffest valving. (Rate plate). And talk about needing some N2 pressure!

So, what I am getting at is that you also have to think about how far those shims are from the thick washer that will stop the shims from bending anymore. No more bendy = no more flow. If you haven't read around in the suspension talk threads... there is a lot of killer info in there to learn.

PS: The Radflo 2.5" race piston I referenced above had a single tiny bleed too. I tapped and plugged it in an attempt to get the most out of the bump zone.
 
Last edited:

Forget Regrets

SiCCMADE
Dec 18, 2010
3,422
26
48
Santa Ana
Curious to hear partybarge's thoughts on this. I would think a flutter in a bypass is wacked. I have never been a big fan of flutter stacks.... but I will admit that I haven't played with them much. So it could be "naivety"

I personally like heavy valving on the piston and I like to use the bypass tubes for the free flow. That way you get a kick ass bump zone.

This comment troubles me a bit. (Hope you don't think I am being condescending or anything here. I love valving talk and still learning every day.)
"Was told that near full compression with more psi is where that extra psi would come into play."

what I am getting at is that you also have to think about how far those shims are from the thick washer that will stop the shims from bending anymore. No more bendy = no more flow. If you haven't read around in the suspension talk threads... there is a lot of killer info in there to learn.

PS: The Radflo 2.5" race piston I referenced above had a single tiny bleed too. I tapped and plugged it in an attempt to get the most out of the bump zone.
I started to read the basic valving theory a month before DR crashed but never finished my readings. I can’t remember everything I was told when talking to a couple of the sales guys and race guys so I can’t quite explain it more than I already have lol. This was just the valving I was suggested to use and psi to use on my truck. It’s a daily driven truck with maybe once a month to the desert for fun. Also am aware x amount of shims differ, was more trying to say what he took out of the rebound, whatever was there before.

As of before the revalve there was no bump zone, maybe in the little stuff but when I got to the big stuff I was slamming pretty hard and had to let off the gas. I know a hydro bump or any stock bumpstop in general would help.

I have always ran flutters in my bypasses, didn’t know that was a weird thing to do though lol


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Forget Regrets

SiCCMADE
Dec 18, 2010
3,422
26
48
Santa Ana
Sold my other bypasses and bought these 3.0 x 14” 5 tube overlapping bypasses last Friday. Light springs in all the tubes and 15c/10r. Hoping to be out at the clean dezert thing to see how the rear does.





Got a brake question if anyone has any insight on it. Stock Dana 44 rotors with cheap aggressive brake pads for the wilwood 4 piston calipers; they squeak pretty bad and are grinding pretty good into the rotor. Do you guys have any recommendations for a better less aggressive brake pad for stock rotors? I’m aware they’ll squeak but it shouldn’t be that bad. I just got what ever was cheap from kartek.


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charlie_brown

OG Member
Aug 10, 2004
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OC/BAJA
so you have the willwoods on the front? what knuckles are you running?

anyways, i wood run a softer pad. what pad are you running?
 

Forget Regrets

SiCCMADE
Dec 18, 2010
3,422
26
48
Santa Ana
so you have the willwoods on the front? what knuckles are you running?

anyways, i wood run a softer pad. what pad are you running?
Running stock D44 stuff.

Honestly I have no idea. I went through a friend at work with an account and was on a budget when I was getting the calipers and told him what ever was cheap. Not sure if I should call kartek and ask them what softer pads they have or recommend or to call wilwood and ask them.

I had an issue a couple weeks ago with the center pin backing out and when I went to fix it my friends and I realized the pads were really digging into the rotors.








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