ZFG SXS build

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84projectford

Senior Member
Sep 8, 2010
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Phoenix Az
You will have to build your own log manifold from what I can tell to use a bolt on but then your issue becomes making the computer use the vanes in the turbo properly. Unless you want to sit in the rig with a lap top and do a bunch of driving while logging vane position and trying to make adjustments in the computer, you will have to stick with some kind of stock modded drop in. I don’t even know if you can actually get the software to log and tune the rig properly.


This is your stock turbo map. Right now it’s pushing around 10lbs/min at 13psi to get your stock 90hp. That’s at around 4100rpm at it’s peak hours based on what I can find. No use going much past that unless a tune is going to open it up to hold power to 4500-4600rpm.

From what I can tell, everyone doing a shit load of fueling mods and even the Garrett vnt17 turbo are only netting around 160hp. “Technically” the stock turbo should be able to do that but I have a feeling the exhaust side becomes a big restriction and drive pressure goes through the roof making the map points go hard to the right and off the map

Even if you get enough air through this bitch, fueling looks to be a big issue to get you over the 200hp mark.

If you can find the fueling, I would really try to compound turbo this thing. Don’t worry about cooling the air between primary and secondary turbo, your water to air will do well because the idea is to keep both turbos in peak efficiency range so adding a ton of heat to the air shouldn’t happen. Remember the secondary turbo (your stock on in this case) goes under pressure from the primary and basically goes under its own atmosphere so if you apply 14.7 psi to the secondary and the secondary adds 13psi, the secondary has no idea it’s making a total of 27.7psi, it’s still happily in its map making 13psi and running efficiently.

I’ll see what I can figure out for a good compound turbo. Hx35 might work well.
 

partybarge_pilot

Uno mas Cervesa!
May 14, 2004
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Boringsville
I know of a guy with a compound set-up pushing almost 90PSI. Fueling with the 11MM pump shouldn't be an issue with the power levels I am looking at. The 60PSI lift pump helps with that. Stockers didn't even use a lift pump in some years.

With the stage 1 tune it has now, it pushes 25PSI. No idea on the drive pressure.

These things have pretty good tuning and data logging with VCDS. Boost control should not be an issue either, these things learn pretty quick. Changing out the vane actuator that was dead only took it about 5 miles to relearn.

Log manifold LOL, did you not watch the billet manifold vid I posted? I all ready have the stainless for it.
 

84projectford

Senior Member
Sep 8, 2010
1,854
1,453
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Phoenix Az
I know of a guy with a compound set-up pushing almost 90PSI. Fueling with the 11MM pump shouldn't be an issue with the power levels I am looking at. The 60PSI lift pump helps with that. Stockers didn't even use a lift pump in some years.

With the stage 1 tune it has now, it pushes 25PSI. No idea on the drive pressure.

These things have pretty good tuning and data logging with VCDS. Boost control should not be an issue either, these things learn pretty quick. Changing out the vane actuator that was dead only took it about 5 miles to relearn.

Log manifold LOL, did you not watch the billet manifold vid I posted? I all ready have the stainless for it.
They can’t learn vane position when you change to a completely different turbo. The exhaust housing and vanes have to be similar to factory for the computer to compensate for it. All the learn feature does is find the min and max setting for the vanes by cycling them.

The lift pump only supplies the fuel to the 11mm, gives the high pressure pump the volume it needs to not cavitate on air. You want the biggest injector with the shortest drivable pulse width in there for your power level (which I don’t fucking remember). Not only does that help keep cylinder pressures lower, it keeps the pump up on pressure (faster recovery) and makes your pistons happy. From there, it’s all air. Lower the egts, longer this thing will take a bearing.

I wouldn’t push that turbo beyond that. Compound it and drop the pressure for the stocker to push 18-20psi and it will do far better. I’m just going off of quick searches.

You take fucking 3-4 months off at a time before touching this shit again and expect me to remember wtf you doing? I hardly remember shit as it is!
 
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partybarge_pilot

Uno mas Cervesa!
May 14, 2004
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Boringsville
Gated and not vnt so shitty spool up.
The actuator location fooled me.

The computer does more than min/max adjustment. It has no way to judge that. It just learns the vacuum signal needed to achieve a certain amount of boost. Get the manual adjustment on the actuator rod wrong and you know it for a coupe minutes. Then it evens out.
 

84projectford

Senior Member
Sep 8, 2010
1,854
1,453
113
Phoenix Az
The actuator location fooled me.

The computer does more than min/max adjustment. It has no way to judge that. It just learns the vacuum signal needed to achieve a certain amount of boost. Get the manual adjustment on the actuator rod wrong and you know it for a coupe minutes. Then it evens out.
that makes tuning nice.

Also, if the stock turbo turns into a giant butt plug at higher RPM, wouldn't this get worse in a compound set-up?
yes and no. depends on how its all setup.

right now you are clamping vanes tighter or close to stock to hit desired higher boost, added more fuel to take advantage of more boost which drives up egts, added more timing which upped cylinder pressure (unless this is like old school mechanical pumps where you have to set static timing, either way, you will have needed to add more there as well). this will put you at or over 2:1 ratio of drive to boost pressure. trying to push the turbo over that 4k mark on engine rpm will put you outside the map as CFM the engine needs vs what the turbo provides drops. you will still make more power than stock but drive pressure goes through the roof (like 3:1). its very much a point of diminished returns. youve added a bunch more fuel and timing for more power but the air just cant keep up, aint cool and doesnt allow you to take advantage of all the power potential. The same goes for injector pulse width (injection duration including dwell) and timing. too much PW nets power but not as much as a larger injector with a shorter PW. too much timing up's cylinder pressure too much and fights the piston on its up stroke. as injector PW increases, timing should too which again, you easily hit a point of diminished returns.

in a compound setup, you still have the drive pressure where you usually saw 2:1 but now the primary turbo will be working once secondary reaches desired boost or around there and deliver more boost off the same drive pressure which brings them back to a more equal pressure between them. This lowers EGTs as you will be burning fuel more efficiently and cylinder pressures as intake temps will be lower from both egt and efficiency range of the turbos. depending on how shitty the stock turbo is at high RPM on drive pressure, sometimes the primary turbo can easily provide enough clean air up top over the stock charger to support more RPM but if the exhaust housing just cant flow enough, you would have to physically gate around the stock charger so that not only do the vanes open, the gate can divert all excess pressure to the primary turbo. you need to be pushing some high power for that, i would assume over 250hp but its a pure guess as you need to see what drive pressure does as fueling/power increases.

what power are you after?
 

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